I am a mother who is raising two boys ages 12 and 9, they are my greatest joy next to my husband. Before TTUAC I pretty much believed that I could “talk” my kids into “godly” obediance. It is by the grace of God that I did not “thwarpe” my poor kids. Reading TTUAC taught me to search the scriptures on what saith the Lord! I belive that every God fearing Christian would be wise to take God’s stance on child rearing.
You say that you don’t believe in spanking? Well God does: Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Prov. 22:15
God says the rod of correction, not conversation or “psycological communication” on the childs level.
God says: Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Prov. 23:13
God says: Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying. Prov. 19:18
God says: The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so [do] stripes the inward parts of the belly. Prov. 20:30
Gee Tulip, it sounds to me like God means a physical application here! I personally believe God’s method to be the one and only correct method. I believe that the Pearls advocate such a method and see no wrong with their “teaching.” To some extent their writings might be based on personal opinion of what has worked for them but the basis is still on a biblical foundation.
That is just a few verses of what saith the Lord on the matter of “spanking.” You may not agree with the Pearls, but God said it and that for me settles it. Wether you agree or not.

Thanks for stopping by. Parents who have “gone the distance” can provide much encouragment for parents who are still in the thick of parenting young children.

You said, “The proof is in the results.”

I have seen just as many tragic results of Pearlesque parenting through the years as I have heard positive stories such as yours.

Did you read this post? Some are mentioned in it. As I’ve said before, the almost-blanket-guarantee that is given by the Pearls is just not sound. Early child training through quick swats when kids disobey will not guarantee an obedient child, a non-rebellious teen, or a spiritually secure and emotionally healthy adult.

“So, maybe we should convene back here at this self-righteous blog in about 25 more years and exchange stories?”

Actually, the Lord has been hard at work in my heart regarding self-righteousness. That is one reason I have rejected Pearl parenting and other performance-based “Christian” parenting ideas. I need Christ daily. My children need Christ daily. Relying on doing the “right” things leads to self-righteousness and forgetfulness of our desperate need for the Gospel and the work Christ has done for us.

Grace and peace,
TG

So, maybe we should convene back here at this self-righteous blog in about 25 more years and exchange stories? I have a feeling that some of you won’t be so brave to share the outcome then. It’s very easy to voice your opinions when you haven’t finished the job yet.

I’ve never met the Pearls and probably never will but will be eternally grateful for the encouragement we received through their publications to be consistent in training up our children. They may be a little too caustic for the softies but then so was Jesus. He didn’t spank the children but He sure gave the parents a good thrashing in the temple – sometimes I think that would solve a few home problems :mrgreen

Welcome! And I hope you stop by again.

Rachel brought up the point of taking what you like and leaving the rest. . . I agree that can be done with many resources. I’ve found, however, that To Train Up a Child has a pervasive disrespectful attitude in it that leads to parent/child antagonism. The good in it can be found in other resources. For example, the concept of “tying heartstrings” and communicating love is strongly emphasized in The Five Love Languages of Children and How to Really Parent Your Child .

Mandy mentioned how happy and obedient her children are. To be honest, Mandy, my children are happy and obedient, too. And they have times when they struggle and are sad. We see in Psalms that God’s children have a wide range of emotions — and both the times of joy and times of distress we need to look to the Lord. I want to convey that to my children. They will have times of sorrow and despair, as all great men of faith have had. And that’s okay — as long as in those times of struggle they know that their refuge is the Lord.

I know that you and others consider what I’ve shared to be “false” and “scoffing.” You have judged that based soley on what Michael and Debi Pearl have said, and are not going to “waste one more minute on this site.” Yet, we are taught in the Bible to take any teaching and compare it to Scripture. I encourage you to take what I’ve said, take what the Pearls have said, and compare it with what is taught in the Bible.

Take time to study it out for yourself. What does it look like to be dependent upon God each day? What does it look like to live out the Gospel in our families? How can we point our children to their need for Christ — and avoid instilling in them the idea that they must “perform” to earn both our approval and God’s?

Don’t take my words as truth. Don’t take the Pearls’ words as truth. I encourage you to continually seek the Lord.

Grace and peace,
TulipGirl

I continue to be shocked to read of Christians endorsing this material.

To suggest that gentle parenting advocates are twisting scripture is offensive as well. I have studied the verses and the “Rod” is a symbol of authority (thy rod and thy staff comfort me) Rod or scepter (sp) are allusive of authority.

Even the title the pearls use “To Train Up a Child,” is a bit off the mark. This is reflective of some suspect *translation* of the verse from the original Hebrew. That verse is the *only* time the Hebrew word, “Hannuk,” is translated as “Train-up.” The word, Hannuk, is better translated as “Dedicate,” and if you keep that in mind as you read the verse, Dedicate your children in the way they should go… it gives the verse some added dimension instead of thinking of training a dog or your vines in the garden.

I *am* the older mother with the eight children so I feel a certain right to speak :-)

I was reading some recent research about homeschooling and found one thing interesting. Of those whose children had strayed from their teaching, most felt that they would have had a larger impact if they had been a better role model and had shown more love and less punishment. Very few felt that it would have been better had they been stricter.

I, too, am tired of those who question the Pearls linked with anti-spanking and atheists and others the Christian community generally questions. Hello? None of that applies to me. Not that I am pro-spanking. I would never advocate it, but that doesn’t mean I think everyone who does is a child abuser. They are separate issues.

Just my disconnected thoughts.

And I left out:
I have read many, many child training books and articles. Nothing that I have read has made a real, effective, lasting change the way TTUAC has. While I understand that there will be those with an over-riding auotcratic spirit, and those who will abuse, those will seek out excuses to that end regardless of what they read. I know because I was on the receiving end of it. During the time that my mother abused us, she was teaching Sunday school the whole time, and no one was the wiser.

For those who reject these teachings on the basis that they don’t agree with the Pearls’ doctrine, all I can say is, you don’t even have to be a Christian to apply these techniques.

After proofing my post again, I saw that I needed to make a correction, and add what I left out. Blessings to you all, may you all find the Truth which you are seeking.
Tammy

That being said, whatever happened to common sense? Why the need for umpteen thousand books on parenting? Whatever happened to learning from our parents and applying that to our children? (I’ve helped to raise two children (not my own) from infancy and never read a book on the process. Although I’ve lost frequent touch with one of the children, as far as I can tell both children are now teenagers making wise choices, are both healthy, intelligent, and lovers of God.) When a child cries, pick it up. S/he may need a diaper change, to be fed, to be burped, to be held, or may be in pain from an illness or injury. Ignoring children because it isn’t in your schedule right at that moment is heartless. God teaches us to sacrifice to/for our spouses because we’ll need that unselfishness for raising children!

What I find really idiotic is Tammy’s supposed need to ardently argue for the Pearls’ method of teaching a child “no.” By the time a child is old enough to reach for a vase at Grandma’s house, s/he should already know the meaning of “no.” (When my siblings and I would ruch around on the changing table, Mom would give us a light smack on our behinds while firmly saying “no.” A few times of that and we stopped ruching. Thereafter, whenever Mom said “no” in any situation we knew to stop our behavior.) Children model their parents’ behavior, so to deliberately play with the vase on the child’s level, then deny the child his/her own opportunity to play with the vase is rather cruel. Better to leave it on the shelf and say “no” if the child manages to climb up to get it. (And why you didn’t stop the child when s/he first started to climb is beyond comprehension!)

I also take issue with Mr. Pearl’s statement that parents are to serve as the child’s conscience and will. Serve as a conscience, yes, but as their will? That’s dangerous territory. Removing the will from a child only results in a browbeaten, depressed child. God gifted us all with a will. Children as young as one month old definitely demonstrate their will (hence the need to say “no” on the changing table!). It is our role as parents to teach our children how to control their wills

“I do not intend this to justify the hard, overriding autocratic rule of some parents. Our job as parents is not to bear down with an autocratic spirit. We are not breaking a bad dog, we are nurturing a tender, developing plant. If you become nervous, anxious and irritable, you will damage the delicate fruit. Children must be handled with kind, patient, loving hands. …..In conclusion,if you walk after your lusts, it is because you choose to, but your child has no choice. Until they are old enough to know good from evil, (Deut.1:39) your resposibility is to function as your child’s conscience and will. You must determine that you will train and condition them to a life of self-control and temperance. If you wait until they are old enough to understand their duty, they will already have a history of being totally given over to the flesh. Condition them now to be self-controlled and temperate in all things, and they will not bring into their Christian life a whole mess of twisted responses against which they must struggle. Parent, repent and lay hold of the freedom that is yours in Christ. Give your child a better start than you had. You are their only hope.”

I put this here because I had been reading some of the posts of some saying that they resent the way the Pearls liken child training to that of dogs. I just wanted to point out that he also states in his material that what he teaches is not intended to be used by overriding parents for their own means in whatever way they want.

I guess what I am trying to say is that many of you are “disturbed” by the technique because you picture it to be that of training lab rats. I take offense to that because it seems that anyone who thinks that has not read enough of his material, or they would see that this is not his goal.

Obviously, babies and very small children cannot talk to us with words. But, they are capable of learning “no”. I know this because I have employed the techniques myself with my own children and have observed my older children without this training. When this training is done properly, without any anger or anxiousness, it works beautifully. I think much of the problem with this type of training is that most of us have been through abuse ourselves, and because of that, we have been ourselves conditioned to despise spanking altogether. But the improper use of the rod does not negate the benefit or even the commandment to use it properly. I hope that last sentence made sense. It might help to read Michael Pearl’s booklet, “In defense of Biblical Chastisement”. Many of us were physically abused to the point of not wanting to spank our own children at all. This is where I started out. My own mother had physically abused my brother and I to the point that I said, “When I have my own children, I am not ever going to spank them.” But, when I had my own children, I discovered that there were some very good reasons that God told us to spank. I won’t go into them here, but I had to reverse my course very carefully. I believe that if you do spank, it should be very measured, and that there should be differences between discipline, punishment, and training. I paused before typing training there, because I don’t spank to train. When I speak of giving a swat, I am talking of a tiny, tiny, spat. It is not enough to cause a cry, or even hardly any pain at all. It is only enough to get the child’s attention, and that is all. It says, this switch is attached to the word “no”. It only takes a couple of times before you can drop the switch altogether and just use the word “no”.

Tulipgirl, referring to your response to my post about setting up a child to sin/disobey. Now, when I put an object in front of a child knowing that he will reach for it, sin and disobedience does not even come into the picture here. Training is the only thing I am focusing on. We are happy all the way. Why wait until you are at Grandma’s house for little Johnny to reach for the flower vase when you know he will eventually? Why wait to train? Set the flower vase in front of him in the middle of the floor and sit with him, smile at him real big. When he reaches for it, say “no” in a calm, sweet voice. When he continues to reach for it and finally gets hold of it, give him one small swat on the hand that has the vase and say “no”. Keep smiling. The younger you start this training, the better results you will have. The spat should only be enough to get his attention, not a spanking to punish or discipline him. Remember, this is only training, not a spanking. When you continue on with this, and he lets go, smile and say, “wow! you are such a good boy! You are mama’s little man! What a good boy you are!……” If you do this regularly, you will not a problem when you go to Grandma’s and he reaches for her flower vase, and you say, “no”. He will not touch it and busy himself with something else.

Also, in response to your post, you are referring to a brother caught in sin, not our children. A brother that is a drug addict is an adult free and able to make his own choices and his moral faculties are developed, not so for a child. The parent has the responsibility to be the child’s conscience until he is old enough and his moral facutlies are developed to a point where he can exercise self-control.

God does not call us to treat our children in the same capacity as we treat our brothers and sisters in Christ. No, I would not set a needle in front of a brother that was a drug-addict and then spank him, but then like I said, his moral faculties have matured to a point where he is free and able to show self-control, whereas a child is not able to show self-control, meaning that the parent has to be the child’s self-control until his moral faculties are fully developed.

You would not allow your child to play on a busy interstate would you? No, that would be presposterous. You, as the parent, would keep him in the yard, acting as his conscience until he is old enough to know that the interstate is not the place to play. Also, I am not viewing the swat during training as spanking, and I get the feeling that you do. You say you do not find this to be biblical. Indeed it is. “Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” Train, train, train. The problem that I am seeing over and over again and again is that there is so much difference of opinion on exactly what training is. People are turned off by Michael Pearls techniques because of the words he uses, and not necessarily the techniques themselves. In many of his stories, he likens the training to the training of animals. I fail to see what is so offensive about that when he says so many times, “A dumb teenager can train a dumb dog.” Why then, can’t a parent train a small child, when the principle is the same? The dog cannot talk, the child cannot talk. Both the dog and the small child can come to understand in a short amount of time the words “no”, “come”, “go”, “sit”, “lay down”, “stay”, etc. This is not at all saying that children are no different than animals by no means. Have you ever seen a family with a well-trained dog that can stay, play dead, roll over, stop, go, lay down, get the paper, etc., and then they have a few kids and the teenagers are pouty or explosive, and the toddlers are throwing fits, throwing themselves down in the floor screaming for what they want, and the baby is into everything while the parents are saying, “no”, and “stop that”, and on and on? Why is it that the dog is trained so well and the children are not? If you told them that they could train their children the same way they trained their dog, do you think they would be offended? I bet you a dollar they would.

I read the theology article that Catez wrote, and I am still studying on some of it, but I believe he made a couple of assumptions in that article. I am planning on writing about that in the future. My husband recently had a brain bleed, and is just now going back to work after a long absence, and we have so much going on, I can’t promise when I will be able to get to it. I have been wanting to do it for a long time, though.

This turned out to be alot longer than I planned, but just wanted to put my two cents in on this. Thanks for letting me. I still wanted to say some more on the CTBHHM, but again, don’t know when I will be able to get to that either, if ever. Oh well, things always work out the way God intended them to. I still didn’t get to completely articulate all I wanted to say on this post, but I have to go now, and this will have to do for now.
Blessings to All,
Tammy

And poor Tammy trying to defend her friends & all the wonderful things that have worked so well for her.

Well, I have read some of the Pearls’ literature & I don’t agree with everything, but they do have some helpful things. I first read “To Train up A child” when I was pregnant with my first child (now 4) my dear aunt gave me the book. It has really helped her out a lot as she is blessed with 8 children that she is homeschooling. She doesn’t agree with everything either, but has found some of their materials helpful. I think she signed me up to get their magazine too!

To tell you the truth some of the things I read by the Pearls have upset me, even angered me (don’t feel hurt Tammy). In fact some of those same points that have been meantioned here.. I told someone (when I first started reading it) that TTUAC teaches parents to train their children like animals- & yes, like some here, I didn’t think it was even necessary to “beat” a horse.

But, the more I read of their writings the more I realize that the Pearls really are not saying anything all that different from what the rest of us are saying. They are just saying it in a different way, maybe even to a different audience. I bet if we met them (& don’t forget it IS quite likely that you may find your heavenly mansion right next door to them- knowing how GOD is about such things) :D …we would find we have a LOT more in common than we think.
Sometimes it turns me off (even makes me mad) when Mr. Pearl writes as if his way is the only way. But I think that is just his (God given) personality. I bet Mrs. Pearl balances him out perfectly! :)

This world needs people, like the Pearls. There is a reason God placed them here in our generation. There is a reason their ministry is growing. Don’t be too quick to discredit all they are saying. I am sure they have helped many people. And I am sure there are a lot of happy homes thanks to there teachings.

Their style isn’t really for me either, I don’t think.

But, don’t worry Tammy. It’s a free country & people will talk. I think those things need to be said too. Don’t you see it all balances out? Maybe someone read something the Pearls wrote & took it wrong. Maybe they are abusing their kids & thinking they are doing the right thing. Maybe something those “damsels” are saying will help them get it all into persepective.

Everyone doesn’t have to agree. It doesn’t mean someone is right & someone else is wrong. No one has complete truth. We are ALL imperfect. Can’t you all see that & learn to appreciate our differences? Don’t you see that a lot of what each person wrote here was good information, if used correctly? Maybe the Pearls could learn from them how to explain & describe things more accurately.
I think I like this site. I think I’ll come back (this was my first time) I was homeschooled & plan to homeschool my little ones. I’m hoping to find some advice on dealing with my 2 year old (The Pearls’ method does NOT work for her, but it helped my 4 year old when she was young- I didn’t even have to actually swat her, just show her the object & tell her it was a “no, no!” Then I’d watch her throughout the day & gently remind her & pull her away).

I also plan to order some more of the Pearls’ materials. I love Mrs. Pearls tape “My favorite homeschooling ideas” and I think EVERYONE here would too! :) I DON’T plan on ordering ANY of the doctrinal materials since the way I read & understand the Bible is very different than the Pearls. But I know they have helped many people who would no doubt be lost if it wasn’t for their ministry.

Just like our homes naturally contain things in the environment that kids can touch and other things that they can’t. I can maybe see a light tap on a child’s hand when they touch something you’ve told them they shouldn’t on their own, but not setting something directly in front of them and hovering around to swat them when they do.

God had one tree in the garden that Adam and Eve couldn’t eat from and several that they could. He showed them all of the things they could have. That’s parenting. Showing a child what is appropriate for them, not tempting them with what isn’t.