Fruits of Pearl Parenting
Posted by TulipGirl | Under GFI / Ezzo / Babywise, Nurturing Children, Pearls / TTUAC / NGJ, Theology for Girls Sunday Jul 13, 2008NGJ Magazine encouraged its followers to comment on how Pearl parenting is working for them on various websites including this one. I couldn’t let the following story get lost in the comments, especially as I know this family and have seen through the years God’s amazing healing in part of the family (as well as the continued struggling in other parts of the family.)
Thank you for sharing with such transparency, Jo.
QUOTE:
“You want to talk fruits of a parenting? Let’s compare and contrast myself with…oh MY PARENTS. My mother is a faithful and avid reader of NGJ. She adores the Pearls and when I first became a mother made it very clear that to be a good mother I needed to adhere to their methods as well.
“While I was not raised specifically by TTUAC because it was not yet written, I was raised in that same method, in that same Christian culture and my mother certainly does adhere to TTUAC methods with the 5 she is currently raising.
“So, let’s see. Mom has 3 adult children and 1 on the verge with which to judge her parenting. Oh but wait, she doesn’t speak to her adult children anymore. We’re too dysfunctional and of this world now for her to have time for. And, for our own part, we happen to believe she should have been locked up for her selfish parenting and her child abuse…oh, that’s right, the Pearls call it Biblical parenting. My sister’s therapist recently called it battery acid. I thought that was a good description.
“So, my mother has 3 thriving healthy adult children whom she has no contact with whatsoever. She has 8 (with a 9th on the way) grandchildren, all of which she is forbidden to have any contact with. Her 17 year old is desperately waiting to finish high school next year so he can get out of her house and has NO intention of speaking to her once he leaves. Her 14 year old hates her and tells me this via emails when she gets a chance. Her 12 year old…well, he’s attempted to run away repeatedly now. Verdict is still out on the 11 and 10 year olds. But, to be quite honest, that’s not a track record I would want for my parenting of 8 children. At least 5 either have no contact or openly state they will have no contact once they are old enough to leave her home.
“Good, Pearl Biblical parenting at work for you, ladies. I lived it. I should know.
“Meanwhile, I subscribe to a gentler, more loving parenting style. I prefer to parent as if Jesus were actively watching me and actively reminding me that I must be like a child to enter the Kingdom myself.
“My children are amazing. I don’t just say this as a proud mother. My youngest son’s therapist informed me Thursday he’s NEVER met children like mine. Church members weep to see the beauty of my children. Heck, I weep to see the beauty that God has blessed me with in these children.
“Oh, therapist you say. Yes, see my youngest son is still a fosterchild. He has huge demons in his heart and soul still. We’re still fighting. No, we’re not waiting for the countdown until we can spank him. We’re fighting to help him heal.
“And, here is the TRUE mark of my children for you. This week, my son’s therapist told us to give up on him. Told us the cost to save him will be too great for the other children to pay.
“Being good parents, we discussed this with the other children. Afte rall, the fight to save and heal this one will take the largest toll on these children. I honestly expected at least a few of the children to say yes, we must give up.
“They didn’t. And, they had no reason to feel they had to say something *we* expected, because we are honestly weak and fragile and aren’t sure we can help this child heal.
“Nope. My children clearly demonstrated the love of Christ in a way I had forgotten in the trenches with this hurting child. They unanimously told us we MUST carry on. They LOVE him, even though they know he does not love them. And, as far as they are concerned, his life is worth what it will cost them. Furthermore didn’t we, mommy and daddy, remember that this is precisely what Jesus would have us do? This is what Jesus wanted us to do And, no matter how naughty and difficult this child is, Jesus still loves him and we must too.
“I’m not a perfect parent. Far from it, honestly. But, I didn’t spank this fruit of the Spirit into my children. I showed them by example what it means to live a life in the shadow of the Cross. And, they have chosen to find their own path to that Cross and to live a life always conscious of what their Savior would have them do. I didn’t stand and attempt to BE their Savior, as Pearl would tell us we should. I merely allowed my life to be an example to point the way to that Cross. Their Savior found them, each and every one of them, he claimed them and they have chosen to follow HIM, not me, HIM.
“And, unlike Micheal Pearl, when my children went to that Cross to find their Savior, they never found me there telling them I represented their Savior. They found a merciful and loving God one they have chosen to follow. And, today, one they have chosen to remain in obedience to even at a high cost to themselves to fight for the heart of a little brother who has never known true love and true commitment and safety before entering this home and being surrounded by these siblings.
“Now, I’m sorry. But, for me the question of whether to follow Micheal Pearl or my Christ is a very simple answer. I look at my parents who followed Pearl and I see the fruits of their labors. And, I look at my children, whom have been raised with the love and mercy that a forgiving and protective Creator would have them raised in. I see fruits in my children which humble me. I see hearts in tune with their Creator in ways I can only wish to be. And, I realize quite simply that Micheal Pearl has missed the mark.
“Hurting children? Yup, missing the mark and deciding to be the Savior for your children is definitely hurting children. I should know. I was one of those children hurt by this parenting method.
_________
Thank you, Jo, for sharing from such a vulnerable place in life. May God continue to heal your family and your children — as well as your parents and siblings still struggling.
I am very sorry to hear of the relational damage that has occurred in Jo’s life and in her family. Having grown up in the homeschool movement with plenty of families around us parenting in similar (Pearl/Ezzo) fashion, I can say that I have witnessed all too many similar stories. It is a “gospel” of moralism, not the true message of Christ that is being preached. I do not believe that genuinely Christian parents will cut their children out of their lives because of differing styles of parenting or other disagreements.
My own childhood is marked with parents trying their best to follow Christ – sometimes following these moralist teachers in so doing. I am very much still trying to rid myself of the anxiety to please/satisfy/get approval from my parents – and they weren’t Pearl subscribers by any means! It is such a difficult topic as an adult child because we are dealing with Christian vs. Christian.
Well, I’m so sorry you have had such a horrible experience. In my case, the Ezzos, Pearls, Bachmans and Phillips family have offered many helpful tools which I have altered to fit my personal convictions. They have helped my family tremendously.
Anything done in a legalistic manner is bondage, unhealthy and out of balance.
Sounds like that has been the experience of many. Sorry yours was so negative.
I have learned many great things from No Greater Joy magazine and other books by the Pearls. I don’t find them legalistic. They must have done something right because all of their children work with them in the family business of No Greater Joy and the family seems to have a healthy and happy relationship with each other. People need to realize that there is a big difference between discipline and abuse. After reading the story here on this website about the woman who was raised with “similar teachings as the Pearls”, but admittedly not the specific teachings of the Pearls, as To Train Up A Child had not even been written yet, has caused me to wonder why the Pearls are being blamed for something they had nothing to do with. I am sorry that this woman was treated this way by her parent. Her parent had a choice to be whatever kind of parent she wanted to be and made a bad choice. It sounds to me like the woman has a great family today and I hope all goes well with her son.
I truly believe that the woman whom we are all commenting on is using the Pearl family as a scapegoat of sorts. They NEVER tell anyone to abuse their children. This woman needs to realize that her mother made her own choices as to what level to take the Pearl’s advice. It does not seem that she correctly followed their advice at all but put her own spin on it. I know DOZENS of family’s who properly follow the Pearl’s advice and they have extremely stable, healthy, happy and content children. I think you need to do more research into claims such as the one this woman is making before you slander a family that has done no harm. Printing her “testimony” is just as foolish as she apparently is.
Karen and Mrs. Biggs,
You and others say, “See, the Pearls have a lovely family!” (which I’m sure they do) and “See, it worked for them!”
When you point to the “good fruit,” it is only honest to point to the “bad fruit” as well — the broken families, the hurting children who never can “measure up,” the mothers who spank harder and more frequent to “be consistent. . .” These things DO happen in families where everything is “done right” according to the Pearls’ teachings.
These are families where the Gospel of Jesus Christ is lost sight of and so-called “Biblical” living becomes an idol. These are not simply excesses of “legalism,” Karen, but the true fruit of teachings that lose sight of the Gospel.
And to clarify, Mrs. Biggs, TTUAC was not the first publication of the Pearls. The Pearls and others with like teachings had everything to do with the story shared above.
Grace and peace,
TG
So sad to hear about the hurting family. I love the Pearls and the wisdom they have to share. I think the writers mother must not have grasped the central message of the pearls is one of selflessness. and of “tying strings” with their children of happy memories. The writer and her family and siblings and mother will be in my prayers.
It seems like a no-win situation. If you don’t get the promised results you’ve either taken the teaching too far(i.e followed it too closely) or you haven’t followed it closely enough.
But if you get good results then it’s ok that you “altered” the materials – like Karen did. But the Pearls(or Ezzos, or Fugate’s, or whoever) still get the credit for such a wonderful book? Doesn’t seem fair to me.
We need a little consistency. If anecdotal evidence is acceptable then you have to accept both pro & con with the same level of scrutiny. To constantly blame the parent who finds fault with the material doesn’t speak to that very well.
By the way, TG. I think you’ve done a great job being fair and gracious on this and your previous post. Much more so than the Pearls did when writing about you in their magazine. Thanks for being such a great example.
I do not understand the debate on the Pearl’s so called parenting methods. Anyone that would advocate striking a baby with ANYTHING is insane. These people will have a lot to answer to God for. To paraphrase, Lord, Lord did we not cast out demons in your name. Lord, we taught people to strike infants in your name!! Get away from me. I never knew you, and you never knew me.
Is everyone who says they’re a Christian a follower of Christ? Does everyone who says they follow the Pearls’ system do it? I was spanked quite strictly growing up (I’m older than most of the Pearl children), longer and more than most “pro-spanking” books today recommend, and all I can say is I am grateful to God for the training I received. In my own experience, the nicest people I know say they were spanked growing up, and most of the nastiest people turn out not to have been. But people have different definitions of spanking, just as people have different definitions of “dating”. Find out what people mean before assuming all spanking is the same. Most of it is a good thing, some of it is very evil.
I also grew up amidst other homeschooled, strict families. My parents did not go by the Pearls but I see a lot of criticism as though that matters. What matters is the intrinsic thought purveyed in the books is the same as I and many of my peers were raised. And yes, I believe I was abused although my parents will argue otherwise.
Some say that you just take what you want and leave the rest but is that really fair to endorse something you advocate picking to pieces? Seems to me if you have to take some of it out as unbiblical or even abusive parenting then the whole book should be questioned.
Ultimately, one should always bathe parenting in LOTS AND LOTS of prayer.
Am I glad for the way I was raised? No, not at all. I was made too afraid to disobey (my mother’s own words) and eventually was in abusive relationships, was molested by someone who had authority over me, and to this day have trouble standing up for myself and my children. I do not want my children to think that this level of submissiveness or abuse is normal.
I agree with what Sarah: submissiveness and authority are misrepresented through the Pearl’s teachings. This topic is so huge – we get off onto tangents debating spanking vs. no spanking or biblical interpretation styles or Christian cultural preferences. But at the root of it, I think, is a movement of leaders who find it appealing to preach mindless submission to “those God has placed in authority over you.” (I don’t mean just the Pearl’s – this can be any elder/pastor/leader in the local church) If those leaders were truly confident in God’s grace and power at work in each of our lives they would not be threatened by our honest questioning of what they teach.
I’m reading some of these comments and wondering if some of these people have ever been in a home that works succesfully, the Pearl way. I’ve been in a home that subscribed to the teachings of the Pearls and was convinced that it was the right choice for this family. These two girls are the happiest, most loved, and happily obedient chilrden that I’ve ever met in my life. Their parents discipline calmly and consistently and the children are so happy. I never thought spanking was a good thing but after seeing this happy family, I’ve changed my mind. There is a line between discipline and abuse. As a teacher, I know how a child who’s abused acts and these girls do NOT act like that. I recommend that anyone who has something negative to say about the Pearls, spend a weekend with the type of family I spoke of above. It will definitely open your eyes to exaclty what biblical discipline truly is.
One of my hangups with TTUAC is a way in which it’s similar to Ezzo’s Babywise. That is that they make their position, which in my opinion is at one extreme (hardcore, rigid, and sometimes manufactured training/discipline) and contrast it with a position at the other end of the spectrum (here it would be permissive parents and/or those who do mostly nothing until they reach the boiling point, and then lash out in anger and violence), as if those are the only 2 options. There’s lots of middle ground in there.
I agree with Elizabeth that Jo’s parents and may others miss the key elements of tying strings and disciplining and training out of love not anger and selfishnss. I think that it is unfortunate that parents miss these major points in TTUAP, but how are the Pearls to be blamed for that? Jo’s family sounds like a classic case of “Jumping Ship” (check out that NGJ article). Maybe instead of blaming others we should: take responsibility for our own actions, forgive those who have hurt us, and continue runing the race with endurance? I don’t think the Lord is glorified through mud-slinging and “speaking” dishonorably about our parents, and after all isn’t glorifying Him our purpose?
My oldest child was harmed by my application of GKGW materials (I wised up before my second child arrived), yet some of the godliest lay leaders in my church are huge fans of the Ezzo’s.
In trying to come to terms with this contradiction, I’ve come to the conclusion that part of the problem is an implicit assumption about evangelical mothers that underlies most of the Ezzo-type programs. The assumption seems to be that the typical mother is by nature a nurturing, extravert who is so overcome with warm, sentimental feelings for her children that she struggles to provide necessary structure, discipline, and boundaries. The moms in my church who swear by GKGW have personalities that trend in that direction.
I, on the other hand, as a result of both natural temperament and family of origin issues, struggle to nurture. I’m more of an introverted, intuitive, thinking type. I don’t struggle to provide structure and boundaries. For a mother like me, GKGW was a disaster.
I don’t think there is a “one size fits all” parenting program. I believe that churches fail parents when the leadership omits to emphasize the importance of exercising discretion in the choice of any practical application materials. Last Fall, my church ran a promotional blitz for GKGW. I was so pleased that the introduction of the promotional materials were preceded by a sermon on the need to balance justice and mercy in parenting, and the importance of evaluating all parenting programs in light of both one’s own personal strengths and weaknesses.
NGJ works for our family. I was spanked as a kid. From what I can tell, I’m normal and successful. Love my mom (dad passed away in 1990; still miss him). Anyone can take good ideas to an extreme and damage people. If you read NGJ and only see spanking, then you’re not reading all of it.
As a Christian, I try to live by the whole Bible (which includes Proverbs). If I am going to naysay another believer for his Biblically held position, I better be careful. I’m entering some dangerous territory.
Emotions are a wonderful gift from God, but I cannot be driven by them. When I feel guilty about sin, I still have to accept God’s forgiveness even though I don’t feel like I deserve it. Likewise, when faced with childhood rebellion, I have been directed by the Bible to discipline in love using spanking. I don’t feel like it; I would rather be my kid’s buddy and let it go. But I have to obey the Word despite my feelings.
I appreciate you allowing both sides to speak. Some other websites don’t want to hear other opinions. Andy Griffith told Barney, “Don’t tell others how to raise their kids.” It’s not in the Bible, but I do live by it.
“I don’t think the Lord is glorified through mud-slinging and “speaking” dishonorably about our parents, and after all isn’t glorifying Him our purpose?”
I find this comment very offensive. It reminds me of the Catholic church’s complaint that people won’t just ‘get over’ their being raped by the priests. It’s insensitive to the pain that those who have been abused have and are continuing to endure. I honor my parents by having them live on my property, rent free, as I care for them until they die. But I will never pretend that they were good parents and people need to know that they CAN be very abusive and cause severe damage to their children EVEN if they are Christians EVEN if they follow popular parenting advice and EVEN if they attempt to ‘tie the heart strings.’This idea of only speaking what is lovely and of good report reminds me of the mother who said her children will never know that abortion exists. I asked her how Christians are supposed to change the world when they don’t know what needs to be changed? I know, it’s the Holy Spirit who changes the hearts of men but we have a responsibility to our children to raise them well and we should all heed the warning of others who have done it wrong or had poor parenting done to them…
This is a separate issue altogether from the Pearls and NGJ, and I didn’t want it to get lost in the other, lengthy email.
What concerns me most about this post is the obvious lack of forgiveness on the writer’s part toward her parents. There is a void there she has yet to let Jesus’ fill. She had parents who took something to the extreme. Rather than require her parents to own their misguided poor choices, she has chosen to blame someone else (it doesn’t bother me in the least that it is the Pearls she is blaming… for “who” is not the issue here). That is what the unspeakable bond of a child toward her parents will do…that is the psychology that returns a battered child to her parents and causes her to lie to teachers and police about where her bruises came from. That is called denial.
She will not call it denial, because she thinks she is admitting to the abuse. But she is denying that her parents are ultimately responsible for that abuse. It concerns me that you would put so much stock in comments from a woman who is coming from such a place of anger and unforgiveness. And that you consider her to be writing from a place of healing. Can you not hear the bitterness and anger in her words? Those aren’t words of someone who has experienced healing. She may be parenting differently from her parents, she may have learned to wear a mask, but she isn’t healed.
I wish I could say I don’t know what I am speaking about, but I know all too well about forgiving those who have abused you and taken away the innocence of childhood. So I know about denial. I know about the pain. I know about the void. I know about the masks. But I also know about unimaginable forgiveness that only comes from our Savior…that this poor woman has obviously yet to receive or experience.
Your posting this with validating comments of her “feelings” only keeps her in the destructive denial cycle longer. I don’t doubt you think you are showing her compassion, but you are not. What you perceive as edifying comments only enable her anger to fester and build higher the wall that separates her from forgiveness, from true freedom in Christ.
It is highly inappropriate to psychoanalyze Jo or to make a determinative finding about her spiritual state or to respond to her story by villainizing HER.
I have to agree with Kathy.
I’m with Kathy on this one, too.
Yeppers- I think forgiveness is of course of the utmost importance but wither or not someone has forgiven their abusers is not indicative of wither their story is believable as a ‘cautionary tale.’ Rather, it should be one more reason to be more careful to raise our children with mercy and love as Christ Jesus relates to us, in our imperfect and sinful state. Forgiveness can bring healing, but judging her is not beneficial to anyone.
sarah, I’m sory you find my comment offensive but it is the truth; neither glorify God. I also agree with Janey. Unforgiveness is the root of the problem here. I am not saying that her parents were right. I am not denying that her and her siblings were hurt. I am just saying that biblically the answer is forgivness. I have also experienced huge hurt because of my parents and lived for many years in both secular and Christian counceling which left me with bitterness and unforgivness. Most of the time counceling dredges past hurts up (and often dwells on them which is contrary to Scripture) with out pointing to the cross. If counceling or others who you are listening to do not point you to the cross to lay your burdens at the feet of the Lord and forgive those who have hurt you than it is not biblical and it is not glorifying to the Lord. I have lived this and know the effects living with biterness and unforgivness have on yourself and everyone you love. I now live on the other side where I am free from those burdens and actually even have a relationship with my parents (which I never thought was possible). Are my parents now perfect? No. Do they still cause hurt? Most definitly. But, now I know what to do when it happens and forgivness becomes easier each time. My goal is not to judge Jo but to lovingly share truth and point her to the cross. I believe this is Janey’s point as well. We can not get caught up in the world’s idea of what we should do when bad things happen. We have to search the Scripture and do it the Lord’s way. As sisters in Christ we often get caught up with being each others cheerleaders (being a shoulder to cry on, a listening ear, and someone to vent to without any wise councel which would point us back the the Lord and His word. Not only will this (doing things the Lord’s way) bring healing to us and those we love, it will also be a witness to the lost, and it will truly glorify the Lord. Jo, my prayers are with you sister in Christ.
I don’t see how any of us can know where Jo is in her forgiveness process with her parents. Well meaning as they may be, these “diagnoses” are shaming judgements, and have nothing to do with contrasting how Jo’s parents raised her and how she is raising her kids.
Can’t find where to email you, TulipGirl.
So I’ll let you know here. You’re site is spamming inboxes again.
When I wrote a comment the first time it asked me if I wanted email alerts and I said yes. Below the add comment box it says you are subscribed to this entry and you can click ‘manage your subscriptions.’ Katherine, you should try doing that.
I am trying that (I did not subscribe in the first lace?) Not the first time I’ve left a comment.
Trying what you said, but so far, it is not allowing me to unsubscribe…
Okay, I click on “Manage your subscriptions” and it take me to the home page…
Not a huge deal. It seems to only be this thread and should stop when this thread peters out. Just wanted to give a heads up.
I have read many of the NGJ materials over the years. None of them leave me with a good taste in my mouth, or a feeling that they are of God. TTUAC is chock full of harshness, physical abuse of infants, and a severe lack of understanding of the Grace of God.
Thank you TG for all you do for children in gentleness and grace!
I have older children now and this fact provides me with a perspective I wish I had when they were younger.
Major on the majors and just forget about minor issues because who has time.
Hint-hint; the majors are wrapped up in love.
I spanked my older children (never in a perlesque way,) and I gave up spanking with a literal rod when I did an in depth word study. My younger children are much easier to discipline because they have developed trust without the confusion of a loving parent inflicting pain. I am relatively strict in one sense but I try to model servant-leadership with my children.
The older ones are successful in every way. They are good moral Christian people. They are pursuing a variety of career paths. My one daughter is a doctor doing a pediatric residency in a wonderful children’s hospital. Another is a Senior in college and will be teaching high school students. Another is a estimator working in a male-dominated field. Two others are college students; one is going into his sophomore year at Duquesne and another is going into her freshman year at Carnegie Mellon. They are both getting scholarships.
I did not need to use punitive discipline with these children, rather a more Christ like relational approach has worked really well.
I understand every family has its own flavor, but I really must take issue with the very harshness and lack of christ-like compassion, grace, and mercy that characterizes the Perl’s methodology. If you are a parent, follow your heart and your own common sense and really dig into the Bible instead of listening to other people’s teaching, this approach will serve you well.
As a Pastor’s wife and marriage counselor with him, I have seen many marriages on the brink of divorce be turned around with the teachings of the Pearls. I understand not everyone will agree but God is using this lovely family to minister to His people. Blessings.
I want to say how happy our children are since we read the books on child training by the Pearls. We spank way less now!
Our kids are happy because now they know what the clear boundaries are in our family. Before I read the books I thought I was 100 percent consistent, but I realized that I was only 95 percent consistent. I learned that this remaining five percent causes kids to feel insecure and test the limits 20 more times for each inconsistency.
We have peaceful, happy order in our home now, and the kids have a happier mom. Mike Pearl recommends TRAINING or ROLE PLAYING before the situation happens. Before I read the books I was not so pro-active like this. Being pro-active and forseeing problems ahead of time really brings peace to the home.
The Pearls also encourage people to tie strings, heart strings with their children. As parents they always had their kids with them cooking, playing, swimming, digging — they were together. They encourage parents to LISTEN to their children and make special memories together. This is a much needed message today.
Without the Pearls’ message, people are spanking out of anger as a last resort. This is not the message from To Train Up a Child. Spanking happens with a calm, loving parent who explains what is happening, hugs, and says I love you.
People who don’t read these books may not have a plan. They may just lash out in anger and slap the child with no warning.
Children who play on playgrounds with no fences are uncomfortable and play only in the middle. Psychologists have proven this. It is the same way with other boundaries. Children feel more comfortable with a home that has boundaries.
I URGE EVERYONE TO PLEASE OPEN YOUR HEARTS TO THESE BOOKS!! There are so many happy families today because these books exist. Mine is one of them. I am no longer a harried, hopeless mother. My children are so glad to have a happy, smiling mother who has a plan, and they hardly ever get spanked now.
Well said Kathy.
My family and friends have been so blessed to have been introduced to the Pearls literature. We read and listen to everything they have available. My marriage and family are so much more loving and peaceful after applying their teachings. God’s ways work!
)
We love the Pearls and all that they stand for!
I have a question for those that love the Pearl methodology so well, if there was an alternative that did not include whipping children from infancy, would you use Pearl’s methods?
Would you spank children if you didn’t believe the Bible mandates spanking?
Would you advocate extreme wife-only submission if you didn’t see that in the Bible?
In other words, would you practice what makes the Pearl’s teaching unique without having first been convinced that it is mandated by scripture?
Debra, while I don’t agree with the place you seem to be coming from (after all, our parenting decisions should be based first from the Bible, you do have a (kind of) point worth considering.
Despite Janeece’s assertion that these are “God’s ways,” how do we know that the methods the Pearls describe are actually Biblical? Some of what I have read (I confess I have read very little of the Pearls) was certainly not what I consider “God’s ways.” Today I was in the nursery with my 16 monthsold and another 16 month old was fussy(she hadn’t eaten or drunk anything in six hours and it was past her nap time.) She was spanked with a wooden spoon! Repeatedly! For being hungry and sleepy and reacting in a normal BABY fashion of mild fussing. She couldn’t SAY she was sleepy and hungry and when she laid down to sleep she got spanked again because she needed to wait till afternoon Bible study to nap. I know other mom’s who read the Pearls and treat their babies the same way.
I saw one family spanking their 8 month old for using his hands to eat instead of a fork.
I know that the Pears advocate spanking littles and these parents claim they are avid followers of the Pearls. So, this really concerns me. I don’t feel this is Godly/Biblical child rearing at all and will raise up bitter and abused children.
Thank you, Janey, for demonstrating the graceless and heartless approach which permeates the Pearls and their method. Of course, the obvious answer is to ALWAYS blame the victim to ALWAYS show how the victim of the abuse set up by the Pearls is the fault of the innocent child, how obviously the family in question did not follow Pearl correctly and how the child is clearly not following Christ now because *GASP* she hasn’t forgiven her abusers.
You would be 100% incorrect, arrogant and outside the example set by the Creator you profess to follow on this one. But, it clearly makes you feel better to villianize me and blame me than to listen to what I am saying.
I forgave my parents a LONG time ago. That doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend they didn’t do what they did. And, it certainly doesn’t mean I’m going to be quiet about the dangers of the Pearls, the Ezzos and others like them who teach that grace is conditional, metted out by parents and controlled by external forces and not a personal matter between each individual and the Savior they must meet at the cross themselves.
And, most importantly, I will point out that forgiveness and relationship are two entirely different things. I forgave my parents long before I became a mother. I may be the only one of my siblings who has done so. But, I also established healthy boundaries to protect myself and my family from further abuse. My estrangement from my parents does not come from my lack of forgiveness but from their refusal to accept the healthy boundaries I have established for myself and my children.
After 8 years of listening to my mother browbeat me that I could not be a good mother unless I followed Micheal Pearl, I simply refused to engage her in relationship until she was ready to respect my choices as the mother of my children. After 2 years of standing my ground and her refusal to accept that boundary, my father attempted to browbeat me, guilt me and shame me into violating that boundary for the sake of what his definition of forgiveness was. When I continued to stand my ground, he has since refused to speak to me at all.
I forgave my parents a long time ago. Its not worth my effort, emotions nor energy to not do so. But, I will not permit them to control me, to dictate how my children are raised nor to continue to engage in verbal abuse of myself and my children. Since that was the only option for continued relationship with them, I made the extremely difficult choice that it was necessary for myself and my children to say Ce la vie. The choice is theirs. If they truly loved unconditionally, they could accept that it is now my time to parent and they could show unconditional love to myself and my children even when we completely disagree on my choices. They categorically refuse and there is nothing left to discuss. It was the sheer fact that I forgave them which allowed me to afford them a decade after forgiveness came to continue to work on the relationship. My unbelieving siblings gave them no such chances, felt no such compulsion to reconcile and wrote them off as soon as they left the home. I expect the same from those who are growing up there currently.
Perhaps, Janey, rather than psychoanalyzying me and attempting to destroy me, you should examine why its so important to convince yourself of such a silly lie rather than hear my cautionary tale. It might serve you far better than gossiping and condemnation of a woman you have no knowledge off to make such judgements concerning in the first place.
Is there any way for me to get in touch with Jo? If you click on my name, you will link to my blog. I really just want to encourage you.
“My estrangement from my parents does not come from my lack of forgiveness but from their refusal to accept the healthy boundaries I have established for myself and my children.”
Jo, I understand this completely. I still live with my abusive parents, which I believe is why I struggle so hard with forgiveness. It’s hard to forgive someone when you are under constant verbal or physical abuse. When I moved away to college I had actually forgiven my father but when I moved back home my sister married and moved away and the abuse multiplied. I married within a year after my sister did to escape my parents, and would have done so much sooner but my boyfriend of the time decided he didn’t want to marry yet so I dumped him in December and married his friend in May.
I am now almost 29 and have been married six years with five children, but still undergo the constant abuse that I grew up with because my parents live with us. I asked them to live here from a sense of feeling the need to honor them in their illness and old age. But this has proven to be a heart braking experience for us all.
I think it’s a good thing you have stayed away from your parents for your family’s sake.
I have set boundaries for my parents but my mom says that she is my mother and essentially my girls’ second mother, and can do as she wants and say as she wants, even if it means raising my children in a manner I don’t approve of. She says that I must always obey her because I will always be her child. They have always told me that they do not need to respect me as I am the daughter and they are the parents. So, obviously they do not respect boundaries either.
Blessings and hope,
Sarah
Debra, while I don’t agree with the place you seem to be coming from (after all, our parenting decisions should be based first from the Bible, you do have a (kind of) point worth considering.
Despite Janeece’s assertion that these are “God’s ways,” how do we know that the methods the Pearls describe are actually Biblical? Some of what I have read (I confess I have read very little of the Pearls) was certainly not what I consider “God’s ways.” Today I was in the nursery with my 16 monthsold and another 16 month old was fussy(she hadn’t eaten or drunk anything in six hours and it was past her nap time.) She was spanked with a wooden spoon! Repeatedly! For being hungry and sleepy and reacting in a normal BABY fashion of mild fussing. She couldn’t SAY she was sleepy and hungry and when she laid down to sleep she got spanked again because she needed to wait till afternoon Bible study to nap. I know other mom’s who read the Pearls and treat their babies the same way.
I saw one family spanking their 8 month old for using his hands to eat instead of a fork.
I know that the Pears advocate spanking littles and these parents claim they are avid followers of the Pearls. So, this really concerns me. I don’t feel this is Godly/Biblical child rearing at all and will raise up bitter and abused children.
Sarah,
I was making your point in a backwards way.
I was first asking folks to look into the Bible for themselves; to do a serious word study instead of following other people’s advice (even my advice, for that matter.)
If you were to step outside this reality, spanking an 8mo baby for using his hands to eat would sound absurd at best. I have done my own private studying and have concluded the Bible does not mandate spanking. (But it does mandate dicsipline.)
sorry for the double posting.
Debra, thanks for your clarification because I was certain that you were saying that just because the Bible says it doesn’t make it true/right/good.
Obviously not a good stance to take as the Bible is our ‘instruction Book!”
My other post was unclear, sorry.
Bible = Baby
Punitive discipline= bath water
Spanking, used in moderation and love, is not only BIBLICAL, but think about all the renowned authors who were raised in homes where the “woodshed” was used on a regular basis. This isn’t something the Pearls started!! Alcott, Dickens, Eliot, Montgemory, the Little House on the Praire books, and many more talk about it postively in their novels. Missionaries, presidents, the founders and and poineers of this country all knew what it was like to get thier backside heated up for deed that shouldn’t have been done.
I’d say we go back to those teachings and not conform our thinking and ways to present-day methods…those have and will do our children much more harm then a good, healthy spanking. It sure didn’t do me and all my other siblings any harm…we all think the world of our parents.
Beth,
I’m guessing you never had to limp in church due to your ‘woodshed’ discipline? I’m not saying that spanking is wrong, I just think that the method that I have seen the parents around me use IS harmful and the method my parents used IS harmful. One mom recently told me you need to do whatever you can to break the will of the child, even if it means refusing food for a week. And she LOVES the Pearls. Don’t you think that some parents are taking these ideas (while may not originate with the Pearls, are perpetuated by them) to an extreme? Are the Pearls to blame for these extreme parents? Well, the parents themselves seem to think so, they just don’t consider their extreme parenting to be dangerous.
Beth,
Spanking is part of a cultural construct. Corrie ten Boom remarks that she was never spanked in her strict Christian household. Her parents (particularly her father,) were simply respected without any force being used (she noted that he was secure in his position as head of the household that he never had to assert his authority; his authority was taken for granted.)
None of the esteemed authors you cite claim some Biblical mandate for the aforementioned spanking. They were spanked because of their culture.
Part of what I find dangerous about people like the Pearls is their claim to a Biblical mandate for their teachings.
We love the Pearls’ teaching because they encourage parents to have fun with their children be joyful and train them so you do not have to spank them.
I said in “moderation and love.” If that’s done there won’t be any “limping.” There is a happy medium…and yes, there are always exceptions…it’s wrong to spank a child in anger. Period. If that’s done, it will, no doubt, breed anger and bitterness. But it can, and IS, being done correctly. I know that from my family and the relationship all seven of have with my parents.
I’m sorry for your experience. And for the record, as much as I enjoy the Pearls material, I don’t agree with everything they say either. Use wisdom and discernment and take it with a grain of salt. The LORD will bless your efforts if it’s done with the right intentions and a pure heart.
How old are you? I don’t really recommend dating. I did try going through a Christian site like that and it was really bad- I got a stalker. he didn’t know where I lived but her came to church every week and was very creepy.
anyway, I don’t recommend dating. Check out “I kissed Dating Goodbye” the author Joshua Harris later did get married and wrote a subsequent book.
I have had about three dates and regretted all of them. I met my husband at church, we were just friends, then in January he told my parents he was interested in marrying me and we were married in May.
During the courting time we spent lots of time with each others families and on Sunday after church.
Now that I have a little more time I want to add that dating is for having fun getting to know what your ideal significant other is, discarding them as you find (Or they find) it not to be a good match. Courtship is the process by which you get to know someone you already believe may be the ideal spouse. Two different processes, two different end results (typically.) Some courting decide that this person is not someone they want to spend the rest of their lives with. But MOST who date are with many many people before finding “the one.”
I would be cautious about I Kissed Dating Goodbye. There is some legalistic stuff there and the church he pastors (the entire org. from the top down,) is problematic.
I could go into detail but it may be off topic.
Interesting, I didn’t know Josh is a pastor now. I used to play with him when we were kids.
But I don’t know anything about his theological beliefs. I read his book when I was 20, just because I was thrilled he had a book. LOL But I don’t really remember anything I thought was legalistic in there. But then people would consider me legalistic in that I often wear long dresses (not always) I typically wear a head covering (but am not devastated if I’m not) and believe homeschooling is the only way to school my children (but most of the time am fine with others using schools.)
Legalistic? Nah, but I am very conservative, more so then most.
Sarah,
I can’t be the judge of your state of legalism or anything else.
If you have convictions, that’s great and I respect you for that.
Just don’t question my salvation if I wear a bikini, go to school, and use noncoersive parenting methods.
The only one who knows if you’re saved, Debra, is God. But I DO know the fruits of the Spirit (You shall know them by their fruits!!) and 1 John 1 is very revealing about those who are in the light and those who walk in darkness. Those are the best judge of someone’s salvation, not what they wear or how they parent (but the fruits and 1 Jn 1 CAN reveal some things that may be reflected in parenting methods ect.)
I just want to say that I think the Pearls are doing a great job and trying their best to help people. I love reading their magazines and their train up a child has really helped me with my babysitting. I thank God for them. Keep up the good work Pearls!
Sorry, I mean their Train Up a Child book.
The Pearls are the wisest people I know. Because of their teaching and encouragement, I now have a relationship with Christ, a glorious marriage and obedient, happy children!
Dear TulipGirl,
Please stop writing harmful things about the Pearls. In Acts 5:38-39 it says:”And so in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action should be of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them: or else you may be found fighting against God.”
I think that it HAS been ‘overthrown’ in a sense. I know a number of people who are very much against the teaching of the Pearls (good, Godly people) and those who are in agreement and are what I would consider abusive parents. So I think that one has every right to criticize the writings of someone who has such followers. I do believe that God gives us the freedom to look at such teaching in critical discernment and voice concerns.
KH,
Those are pretty strong words to lob against a sweet godly woman like Tulipgirl.
I don’t recommend using the Bible against Believers. Who was it that used scripture to tempt and discourage? Hmmmm? No, I won’t go there, especially to defend people that preach abuse against children. Bless Tulipgirl for her efforts to protect innocent children and prevent mothers and fathers from the heartache of regret when they are finally exposed to the concept of grace that is so central to the message of the Bible.
DB,
I don believe KH was trying to tempt or discourage anyone. If you keep Acts 5:38-39 in context it is just saying that we should leave these matters in God’s hands, for Him to sift through and if they are not of God they will pass away. But if they are of God they will survive and I believe that the Pearl’s have withstood the test of time. I agree they are not what this world would call conventional to today’s training methods, but look where modern training method’s such as time out have taken our society. It is why so many parents are crying out for some sense of sanity but are never seeming to reach it. Let me also say that spanking a child when they have been willfully disrespectful is not beating a child like some like to say it is. God’s word says “spare the Rod spoil the child” and should be followed only when a child is willfully disobedient.
I do not consider my parenting methodology to be a “training method.”
In fact, the word, “train” is not part of my parenting lexicon at all. The verse, “Train up a child in the way he should go,” was poorly translated from the original Hebrew. The Hebrew word is “Channuk” which is more correctly rendered, “dedicate.” (the same word is the root of the Jewish word, “Channukah,” which is the feast of the rededication of the Temple.) I am to dedicate my child in the way he should go.
This rendering is more in harmony with basic Christian philosophy.
I can find no reason to spank my children. It just isn’t part of who I am. My children aren’t perfect, but five out of the eight are legally adults and their fruit is good.
And what is outlined in No Greater Joy is downright beating (not a swat to the bum,) and practicing such draconian methods would be considered abusive in much of the nation’s jurisdictions.
Spare the rod and spoil the child is not in the Bible. When the rod is mentioned in the Bible, it modifies the word, “Discipline.” and is a metaphor for discipline. But, bear in mind, the shepherd’s rod was not used to beat the sheep, it was used to guide the sheep, it was used to beat predators.
DB,
Let me give you credit, Spare the rod spoil the child is not in the bible. But kets kook at what it really says,
(NKJV)Poverbs 13:24 “He who spares his rod hates his son,But he who loves him disciplines him promptly”. In the 13 Chapter it is speaking of a son heeding his fathers instruction. Also in Proverbs 10:13 it states “Wisdom is found on the lips of him who has understanding, But a rod is for the back of him is devaid of understnding.
The word rod in both of these verses is used and interpreted the same which in Hebrew comes from the word “shebet” which means a stick (for punishing,punishing,writing,fighting,ruling,walking,ect.- correction,dart,rod,sceptre,staff,tribe.
This coming from the New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible. Both these verses are very plain to what they speak about. Don’t be fooled by Satan’s tricks of disseption. God’s word is God’s word, The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
“But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.”
Discipline and beating are different.
The rod is modifying the subject of the sentence; discipline.
Also the rod for the back of him is devaid of understanding (what version is that? Devaid, please, but I digress,) that person is an adult, not a little child.
And, do we beat adult criminals? NO WAY. But that verse was directed at adults, but yet we don’t beat hardened adult criminals. and there is an advocacy for treating children more harshly than hardened adult criminals?
And, please don’t suggest that advocating a more grace-filled gentle approach toward babies and little children is a trick from Satan. I would say anyone that is seriously advocating beating little children in God’s name may have some issues of her own. And I am holding back and you are trying my patience; please do not suggest people on this board are agents of satan. You are offending good Christian people who simply hold a different opinion on an issue that is not doctrinal. And, a word to the wise; you *really* don’t want to mess with me as anyone who knows me will tell you. And one more thing, please don’t put Strong’s on the level of Scripture.
DB,
The word is devoid,it was a misprint. And it was from the NKJV. Oh and believe me i would be the last to place Stong’s on the same level as the bible, But it does make for good refrencing. I will not get in a argument over any of these matters. All I can say is seek the Truth and the Truth will set you free.
The following quotations come from the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible:
Prov 13:24: “He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently).”
Prov 19:18: “Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.”
Prov 22:15: “Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.”
Prov 23:13: “Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.”
Prov 23:14: “Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel).”
Prov 29:15: “The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.”
But the key in all these verses is CORRECTION, CHASTEN, and REPROOF and ACTIVE PARENTING. And as for the verses that say beat with the rod he shall not die and beat with a rod to deliver the soul from hell or sheol…children DO die from being beaten and it will not save anyone’s soul. So if you can discount those two Scriptures then surely the other Scriptures can be criticized as well to not actually mean what the way they are being interpreted.
But another thing to consider is that these are ALL OT passages. The OT shows God’s judgment, but the NT shows his Grace. In the OT we were commanded to stone our children in certain instances. So if you are a literalist to the extent of thinking we must beat our children with rods to Scripturally parent then you should be stoning them as well.
They are all modifying the verb in the sentence which is discipline.
Discipline is what is mandated in those verses. The Bible neither mandates nor does it forbid spanking. I have found disciline to be much more complex than simply beating my children with a literal rod.
Discipline is relational. To be honest, when aI look back at my childhood, I learned my lesson the most when I saw the look of disappointment in my parent’s eyes. They didn’t have to actually *punish* me, disappointing them, falling short of the mark was enough. Why? Because I loved my parents and hated to see that look in their eye. It was much more effective than the times I was spanked.
Same with my children. The relational element of discipline is what is the substance of parenting. I do not need to physically hit my children because we are so connected with one another, I can guide them and provide boundaries without actually using physical force.
The English language has evolved significantly over the 400ish years since the KJV was first translated.
On top of that, it was poorly translated by men who were steeped in their culture. many verses are poorly translated, another unrelated one is the word, “Helpmeet,” that was wretchedly translated. I really cannot find justification in the Holy Bible for beating a young child.
After reading several of these comments my heart is full of many emotions! First the Bible is THE Word of God and the KJV is not mistranslated or hard to understand. We want everything in a watered down version in this day and age we live (including God’s Word). Pray about it if you don’t understand something and God will give to all men wisdom. Secondly, I have read many articles of the Pearls and they have some great advice! No, I did not say make them your Bible doctrine. Mature people can read advice and eat the meat while spitting out the bones. You will not agree with everything one says. Adapt the wisdom in your family. I was raised according to God’s principles in raising a child and they used several methods of discipline that included spanking. My sister and I turned out better for the discipline. We raise our children in the same manner and I receive compliments about their behaviour weekly. It is a disciplined child that is healthy emotionaly and has confidence to act accordingly to the situation. Thirdly, everything needs to be done in moderation and this includes the rearing and discipling of a child. Love and respect is learned and watched by children who are raised in a God fearing home. Parents do need to portray a Godly example! I have a hard time coming against the Pearls methods when their children DO respect them. Possibly, some of these writters that disagree with the methods did not have them taught to them in a manner of love but tyranny.
It’s not just enough for our children to obey and respect us. I hope that my children also have a good self-esteem and gentle hands.
I spanked my children until last fall. I wish I never had. That said, I quit and I can’t believe the difference it has made. We can talk about things, there is less lying, they respond to their friends with more gentleness instead of hitting.
It’s hard for me to admit that even though I looked like a great parent to everyone else, I wasn’t. I have made the transition from a punitive/restoration parent to an attachment parent, but it’s taken me 10 years.
I had to relearn patterns that I had learned as a child.
After I read To Train Up a Child three years ago, I ripped it into little tiny pieces and threw them away. For one day I tried their techniques and I will never forget the sadness and pain I caused.
Tulipgirl, you were very influential in my life in years ago helping me debunk the Ezzos and then the Pearls. But it took a few more for me to see that spanking does not achieve any of the goals I have set for my family, and even worse it hurt the spirit of my children and made them think that I am out to get them instead of me being a friend to them put here to help them on their Christian journey.
Also, I would recommend the first volume of Charlotte Mason’s series. We could all use a bit of old fashioned wisdom… children have not always been beaten. That is a lie. Once you start looking for it you will find a better way. I can’t say for certain of course, but I don’t think Jesus would EVER strike a child.
Thanks, Tulip Girl.
[...] Fruits of Pearl Parenting [...]
[...] greater joy,” but found herself afraid of seriously harming her child. And Jo shares about growing up with Pearl-esque parenting and the long-term harm it has done to her [...]
A “Lovely Family” built on fear will crumble. I’ve been trying to teach my son that “respect” does not happen when a gun is shoved in your face: that’s fear. Respect is earned thru trust and honesty. Neither is in the Pearl’s literature. Their role model was Stalin.
[...] Fruits of Pearl Parenting by Jo from TulipGirl’s blog [...]
That was incredibly helpful, moving. For the first time in a long time, I feel as if I am not alone. I so desperately do not want to repeat the patterns inflicted on me. And the children written about here, remind me of my own.
Kathryn Harrison writes in her book, “The Kiss” ‘We are taught to expect uncondtional love from our parents, but I think it is morethe gift our children give us It’s they who love us helplessly, no matter what or who we are.”
And that is why the Ezzos, and Pearls and all like them who seek to formulate teh art of raising children not only do a disservice, but conduct their ministires dangerously and without merit.
I’m supporting you every step of the way. You have a basic right to your opinion, and you must never let anybody tell you anything else. Keep it up!
Well, I like what you say, but only partially. Anyway, it’s all good material. Thanks!
Sorry to be off topic, but I like your posts and I wanted some feedback for my blog. I have a hard time writing, but I do want to share my experiences. Am I stuck between a rock and a hard place? Or should I just do it?
Thanks for the fantastic post. I will be sure to add your blog to my newsreader to keep up with your future posts. Being in the lighting business, it’s great to view things from a alternative viewpoint.
Your blog is very interesting, i have bookmarked your site for future referrence
Great post. YOu make it seem so easy to share your experiences. I wish I could do as well in sharing on my blog. I just got it started and sometimes feel stuck on what to share or if it is the right thing to share. what to do?
Great read. Sorry to be a little off topic but I was wondering, I want to start a blog but was trying to figure out how to get a readership to it. How do you get search engines to find you like I found you? Is that hard?
However, it seemed well worth
I will look at the download! By the way, where is the download address?