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April 08, 2006

Of Books and Bands Unheard Of

So I went to the local Christian bookstore tonight. . . I like it, in spite of some of the cheesiness that is inevitable these days in Christian bookstores. It helps that a manager there goes to our neighborhood PCA and consciously stocks books I'd like to buy.

Anyway, there's a systematic theology I've heard about. While I adore Berkof, I wanted to get another perspective as well. I couldn't remember the authors name. "Grudem?" asked Skip.
"Nooo. . ."
"Oh, Reymond?"

He showed me to the last one in stock. Yikes. I forgot the price tags that come along with books like that. I bought it anyway, thanks justifying that I might not get a 20% off coupon from Skip again, and that my folks sent me a birthday check a few weeks ago. (That birthday money also bought me new jammies. And a couple trips to the local coffee shop. And a few other things. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Or at least, keeps on letting me find room in the budget for splurge buys. . . *L*)

After that I wandered back to the music section. While I've enjoyed a wide range of music through the years, I've only allowed myself to be called a fan of The Choir. They recently released a new album. I couldn't find it. I asked the guy in the music section where I'd find it.

"The Choir? That's the group?"
"Yes, The Choir. O How the Mighty Have Fallen."
"Do you mean the Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir?"
"No. Just The Choir."
"Hmmm. . . They must be an older group."
"You've never heard of The Choir? They're classic. Mid-80s SoCal alternative Christian pioneers?"
"No. . ."

I was shaking my head. The music "expert" for the store had never heard of The Choir. And I was feeling my age. Especially after his, "They must be an older group" comment. I had picked up "At the Foot of the Cross" and asked him if he was familiar with that. He was. I pointed out that Steve Hindalong was the producer, Steve Hindalong the lyricist and percussionist for the Choir. Blank look.

He looked it up on the computer. That store had never ordered, stocked, or sold a single Choir CD. The mind boggles. I told him he had to order something, just for his own listening edification.

I guess I'll just order it directly from Dan, Derri, and Steve. I bet this birthday check could stretch infinitely.

Remind me one day of swooning around Steve's parents and my "I'm a greedy little monkey" story.


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Oh, you'll like the Reymond. . .I've had Berkhof's for a long time but I think I use them both equally now. I started reading in the appendices and was hooked.

Posted by: Kim from Hiraeth at April 8, 2006 11:32 PM

I started reading in the appendices and was hooked.

*L* Another reason I adore you!

Posted by: TulipGirl at April 9, 2006 12:30 AM

Reymond is a smart fellow, but his departure from Nicene christology is disturbing. He came to my OPC church years ago (when I was a Calvinist), and publically denounced the Nicene creed. Disturbing.

St. Worm

Posted by: St. Worm at April 9, 2006 12:37 AM

If you are looking for someone to give you a different perspective from Berkhof you should try Herman Bavinck. They are currently republishing his Reformed Dogmatics and are on vol. 3 which I just bought for under $30 at Westminster Bookstore . It is the volume on Sin and Salvation in Christ and looks like it is going to be an excellent book (he does a 100 pages on the order of salvation). He is a great writer and he incorporates the Scriptures a lot in his writing. Also, from the link you can see that they have his "Our Reasonable Faith" on sale for $23. That is a great book which I'm reading right now for my Doctrine of Salvation II class. His chapter on Justification is very interesting. His other two volumes are Prolegomena and God and Creation.

I echo the comment by The Worm. The problem is in chapter 9 of Reymond's book where he deals with the Trinity and the creeds. He has a problem with the eternal generation of the Son which is standard Reformed Theology. I think he believes that the generation of the Son is economic not ontological. He also believes that the Holy Spirit does not eternally proceed from the Father and Son (a clear denial of the Nicene creed).

I hope the spam filter doesn't think this is spam. A friend of mine sends me email with a plea in the subject line to the spam filter to let her through :-).

Posted by: Michele at April 9, 2006 07:22 AM

Reymond is indeed a weighty tome! My husband has it in his study but alas, I have never looked at it.

Posted by: Sheena at April 9, 2006 08:03 AM

Do you ever order books from Christianbook.com (Christians Book Distributors)? I've saved a lot of money on theological resources through them.

The Choir makes a little more money when you buy from them direct. I figure if I want them to keep making CDs, I better make sure they are taken care of!

Posted by: Sled Dog at April 9, 2006 11:52 AM

You and Kim at Hiraeth have both mentioned this book....hmmmm.....dare I?

Post your thoughts once you've had a chance to look at the book; I'd like to hear them.

Posted by: Kim in ON at April 9, 2006 01:29 PM

There were some issues in the first edition which have been addressed in the second edition.

From the Preface to the Second Edition:

"As this 2nd Edition goes forth I want to thank both my commenders and my critics for the time and effort they have expended to review the work. All their critical comments were taken seriously, and often these comments led to a modification of expression or of conception. This edition, while preserving the pagination of the former edition, includes these modifications. If they have improved the work to any degree I have these faithful servants of Christ to thank."

I'd need to read more than anecdotal evidence that Reymond "denounced the Nicene Creed." As far as I hve been able to discern, he does not do so, at least in the 2nd edition.

St. Worm, can you direct us to the specific section in Chapter 9 of which you are speaking? Denounce is a pretty strong word. I've read it through and while I admit I am not a seminary trained theologian by any means, I have not been able to see where he has done this. I do not ask this to be contentious or to stir the pot; if you know something I need to know, then since I do use his systematic in my study of God's word, I need to know it!


Admittedly, it's been awhile since I read Chapter Nine, but if I remember correctly, I don't think his commentary on eternal generation meant as a refutation of it; (if I remember correctly) he wants to guard against denying the Son self-existance, which is an essential, incommunicable attribute of God.

Posted by: Kim from Hiraeth at April 9, 2006 06:49 PM

hiya girlie! I need to purchase some more theology books. I have so many "churchy" reads right now (4 all at once to be exact)including a couple for my Holy Spirit class, but when I'm done with those perhaps I'll tackle a heavy read like Berkhof. And I've never heard of The Choir either.

Posted by: Makeesha at April 9, 2006 07:42 PM

I remember The Choir! We had their "Diamonds and Rain" album, and when I was in the London area on business back in '89, I made a point of walking down Kingston Road in Leatherhead. Just because.

Posted by: Michael Bates at April 9, 2006 07:57 PM

hi. I enjoy your blog. I feel compelled to de-lurk to tell you that I used to love The Choir!!!! I need to check them out again.

Posted by: sweetpea at April 10, 2006 01:07 PM


My ST prof Doug Kelly is coming out with a new ST that he hopes will in some way replace Berkhof as the standard text. That sounds pretentious, now that I say it, but Kelly IS a stud, so.

Just a heads-up.


Posted by: Andy at April 20, 2006 01:45 PM

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